debhart
2004-03-26 12:43:38 UTC
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do you have another gig already?
-----Original Message-----
From: ***@topica.com [mailto:***@topica.com]
Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 6:52 AM
To: ***@topica.com
Subject: Digest for ***@topica.com, issue 1109
-- Topica Digest --
Let's call a spade a spade
By ***@hartmann.net
Article in Intelligent Enterprise magazine regarding Agile Methodologies
By ***@aol.com
Re: Article in Intelligent Enterprise magazine regarding Agile
Methodologi
By ***@lorrain.ca
Re: Article in Intelligent Enterprise magazine regarding Agile Methodologi
By ***@aol.com
RE: Article in Intelligent Enterprise magazine regarding Agile Methodologi
By ***@realsoftware.be
------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 23:02:19 -0500
From: "Deborah Hartmann" <***@hartmann.net>
Subject: Let's call a spade a spade
Non sequitur... my comment below
-----Original Message-----
From: ***@topica.com [mailto:***@topica.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 6:49 AM
To: ***@topica.com
Subject: Digest for ***@topica.com, issue 1108
------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 06:51:49 -0500
From: "J. B. Rainsberger" <***@rogers.com>
Subject: Re: [AM] Why Traceability?
JB: thanks for sharing this honest viewpoint. It's taken out of context
here, because I'm more interested in the sentiment than the discussion it
comes from, I hope that's ok. Here's my take on the same subject:
We need to remember this in the Agile community, because Agile is about
Values: Where an organisation or client *mandates* non-agile practices one
needs to accept being non-agile in that area, or get out and do something
more satisfying. The third option must be resisted: incorporating non-agile
or anti-agile practices *and* calling it Agile. This is confusing and not
satisfying: it weakens the effectiveness of Agile's inspect-and-adapt cycle.
One's Agile efforts will be handicapped - as the team limps along, wondering
why "it hurts when I do /this/", wondering why Agile is not working, we give
Agile a bad name and make our teams unhappy.
Let's be honest and own up to the practices we are using - by choice or
economic necessity. Compromises are sometimes necessary, we have all seen
this and know it exists. But let's not try to twist Agile to incorporate or
compensate for these compromises. So, if it's not Agile, don't try to sugar
coat it and call it Agile. Call it a hybrid. Call it "on our way".
Or get out - as JB mentions. This is an honest approach, and seems to be
satisfying to JB and others I know. That's important. Well, for many of us,
job satisfaction is important.
Personally, I'm happy to be *more agile* every month... it's an organic
growth thing, but then I have a long fuse. Over time, we try to replace the
next thing that hurts the work the most with an Agile practice... if it's
where the team hurts most, there is more motivation to accept the change.
Who cares if we're not 100% Agile today? Next week? As long as it's
sufficiently satisfying in terms of what you value. It is for me. For now.
We'll see next month. There's always the door. :-)
deb
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 23:09:30 EST
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Article in Intelligent Enterprise magazine regarding Agile
Methodologies
-------------------------------1080274169
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Hello, all.
I'd be interested in your responses to the article entitled "Popularity
Contest" in Intelligent Enterprise magazine. It provides a capsule sketch of
the
comments I hear whenever the subject of agile methodologies comes up at many
of
the software development-related events here in Silicon Valley.
I'm sure that this is something with which many of you have had to contend.
While I personally don't agree with many of his conclusions, I would
appreciate
some feedback from the members of this forum.
The article may be accessed on-line at:
http://www.intelligententerprise.com/020628/511e_business1_2.jhtml
Thanks for your views.
Regards,
Pete
-------------------------------1080274169
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<BODY style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR:
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<DIV>Hello, all.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I'd be interested in your responses to the article entitled "Popularity
Contest" in Intelligent Enterprise magazine. It provides a capsule sketch of
the comments I hear whenever the subject of agile methodologies comes up at
many of the software development-related events here in Silicon Valley.
</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I'm sure that this is something with which many of you have
had to contend. While I personally don't agree with many of his
conclusions, I would appreciate some feedback from the members of this
forum. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The article may be accessed on-line at: </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><A
href="http://www.intelligententerprise.com/020628/511e_business1_2.jhtml">ht
tp://www.intelligententerprise.com/020628/511e_business1_2.jhtml</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thanks for your views.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Regards,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Pete</DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1080274169--
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 22:14:37 -0700
From: Norman Lorrain <***@lorrain.ca>
Subject: Re: [AM] Article in Intelligent Enterprise magazine regarding Agile
Methodologies
I would jump on the comment
"A software engineering project should resemble a good civil engineering
project"
No, no, no. Why should it? Why are some so insistent on shoehorning
software engineering into a civil engineering paradigm? Humanity has
been building bridges for millenia, but software for only decades. It's
a dumb analogy.
No one ever says that writing a novel, or that creating a recipe, or
writing a song, is like building a bridge.
Reminds me of an engineering prof. I once had. He said that the
engineering disciplines could be summarised by their equations:
civil: Sum(Forces) = 0
mechanical: Force = mass x acceleration
electrical: Schroedinger's equation:
http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/SchroedingerEquation.html
The implication was that Electrical Engineering towered above all other
disciplines...
Of course, software development is even more involved, because we're not
constrained by the laws of physics. Way more degrees of freedom.
Another quote:
"The goal of software engineering in the future should be to be as
successful and as repeatable as any other engineering science"
I'm not so sure that repeatability is of any use. I know thats the holy
grail for many in QA and CMM advocates, but really, what does
repeatability buy us? If MS lost the source code to Word, would we
expect them to recreate it exactly? Bugs and all? Maybe I'm
misinterpreting the term.
If you're talking to someone who's looking for an analogy to
engineering, I woud point them to Poppendiecks book. I like how they
compare the software development process to control engineering - but
don't get confused, in this case the *process* is itself a control
system - it's all about feedback. In the traditional methologies, there
isn't nearly as much feedback, and perhaps thats why we've see so many
failures in the past decades.
In agile methods, if a practice isn't proving its worth in providing
feedback to the developers, its considered waste. The Poppendiecks
point out that elimination of waste is paramount in the Toyota
Production System, a modern and very successful engineering process.
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 01:01:49 EST
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Re: [AM] Article in Intelligent Enterprise magazine regarding Agile
Methodologi
-------------------------------1080280909
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In a message dated 3/25/2004 9:15:13 PM Pacific Standard Time,
***@lorrain.ca writes:
I would jump on the comment
"A software engineering project should resemble a good civil engineering
project"
Hear, hear!
That's the issue I think most people who have seen or experienced an agile
project seize on almost universally: the bridge building analogy. Whenever I
hear it, I am reminded of the reason it took so long to remove he traffic
bottleneck at the point at which Alum Rock (I think...) crosses Highway 101
in San
Jose (The Capital of Silicon Valley): The overpass was constructd of about a
zillion tons of concrete all the way down to bedrock, so it was too
difficult to
dismantle. Hmmm. that does sound like some of the application systems I've
had
to go in and clean up!
Thanks for your comments.
Regards,
Pete
-------------------------------1080280909
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<BODY style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR:
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<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 3/25/2004 9:15:13 PM Pacific Standard Time,
***@lorrain.ca writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue
2px solid"><FONT face=Arial>I would jump on the comment<BR>"A software
engineering project should resemble a good civil engineering
<BR>project"</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV>Hear, hear!</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>That's the issue I think most people who have seen or experienced an
agile project seize on almost universally: the bridge building
analogy. Whenever I hear it, I am reminded of the reason it took so
long to remove he traffic bottleneck at the point at which Alum Rock (I
think...) crosses Highway 101 in San Jose (The Capital of Silicon
Valley): The overpass was constructd of about a zillion tons of concrete all
the way down to bedrock, so it was too difficult to dismantle. Hmmm.
that does sound like some of the application systems I've had to go in and
clean up!</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thanks for your comments.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Regards,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Pete</DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1080280909--
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 12:29:21 +0100
From: "David Robrecht" <***@realsoftware.be>
Subject: RE: [AM] Article in Intelligent Enterprise magazine regarding Agile
Methodologi
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I would loke to jump on the same comment comment "A software engineering
project should resemble a good civil engineering project" Creating software
involves the same steps as other industries, the problem with the analogy is
the mapping of the phases. In Belgium all bridges and tunnels are considered
works of art. Somebody has made a design and then is was build. (not
straight away) Cars are designed first and constructed later. To me all
software engineering activities before compiling are design activities. I
think software creation teams resemble advertising agencies, design
departments of car manufacturers, animation movie makers. Why not make the
next analogy: Developer = Animator Functional analyst = Scenarist Architect
= Director Project manager = Producer. Note that I have not said or
implied anything about maintenance or other very relevant and expensive
activities. I only think designing software has nothing to to with the
construction of bridges. Robrect DAVID
***@advalvas.be -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Norman
Lorrain [mailto:***@lorrain.ca] Verzonden: vr 26/03/2004 6:14 Aan:
***@topica.com CC: Onderwerp: Re: [AM] Article in Intelligent
Enterprise magazine regarding Agile Methodologi
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=========================================================== I would jump
on the comment "A software engineering project should resemble a good civil
engineering project" No, no, no. Why should it? Why are some so
insistent on shoehorning software engineering into a civil engineering
paradigm? Humanity has been building bridges for millenia, but software
for only decades. It's a dumb analogy. No one ever says that writing a
novel, or that creating a recipe, or writing a song, is like building a
bridge. Reminds me of an engineering prof. I once had. He said that the
engineering disciplines could be summarised by their equations: civil:
Sum(Forces) = 0 mechanical: Force = mass x acceleration
electrical: Schroedinger's equation:
http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/SchroedingerEquation.html The
implication was that Electrical Engineering towered above all other
disciplines... Of course, software development is even more involved,
because we're not constrained by the laws of physics. Way more degrees of
freedom. Another quote: "The goal of software engineering in the
future should be to be as successful and as repeatable as any other
engineering science" I'm not so sure that repeatability is of any use. I
know thats the holy grail for many in QA and CMM advocates, but really,
what does repeatability buy us? If MS lost the source code to Word, would
we expect them to recreate it exactly? Bugs and all? Maybe I'm
misinterpreting the term. If you're talking to someone who's looking for
an analogy to engineering, I woud point them to Poppendiecks book. I like
how they compare the software development process to control engineering -
but don't get confused, in this case the *process* is itself a control
system - it's all about feedback. In the traditional methologies, there
isn't nearly as much feedback, and perhaps thats why we've see so many
failures in the past decades. In agile methods, if a practice isn't
proving its worth in providing feedback to the developers, its considered
waste. The Poppendiecks point out that elimination of waste is paramount
in the Toyota Production System, a modern and very successful engineering
process. ***@aol.com wrote: > > I'd be interested
in your responses to the article entitled > "Popularity Contest" in
Intelligent Enterprise magazine. It provides a > capsule sketch of the
comments I hear whenever the subject of agile > methodologies comes up at
many of the software development-related > events here in Silicon Valley.
http://www.intelligententerprise.com/020628/511e_business1_2.jhtml >
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=========================================================== For more
information about AM, visit the Agile Modeling Home Page at
www.agilemodeling.com
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------------------------------
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End of ***@topica.com digest, issue 1109
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do you have another gig already?
-----Original Message-----
From: ***@topica.com [mailto:***@topica.com]
Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 6:52 AM
To: ***@topica.com
Subject: Digest for ***@topica.com, issue 1109
-- Topica Digest --
Let's call a spade a spade
By ***@hartmann.net
Article in Intelligent Enterprise magazine regarding Agile Methodologies
By ***@aol.com
Re: Article in Intelligent Enterprise magazine regarding Agile
Methodologi
By ***@lorrain.ca
Re: Article in Intelligent Enterprise magazine regarding Agile Methodologi
By ***@aol.com
RE: Article in Intelligent Enterprise magazine regarding Agile Methodologi
By ***@realsoftware.be
------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 23:02:19 -0500
From: "Deborah Hartmann" <***@hartmann.net>
Subject: Let's call a spade a spade
Non sequitur... my comment below
-----Original Message-----
From: ***@topica.com [mailto:***@topica.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 6:49 AM
To: ***@topica.com
Subject: Digest for ***@topica.com, issue 1108
------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 06:51:49 -0500
From: "J. B. Rainsberger" <***@rogers.com>
Subject: Re: [AM] Why Traceability?
... When a client or employer
doesn't want to work that way, I look for a quick exit. > I have been able
to feed my family so far.doesn't want to work that way, I look for a quick exit. > I have been able
JB: thanks for sharing this honest viewpoint. It's taken out of context
here, because I'm more interested in the sentiment than the discussion it
comes from, I hope that's ok. Here's my take on the same subject:
We need to remember this in the Agile community, because Agile is about
Values: Where an organisation or client *mandates* non-agile practices one
needs to accept being non-agile in that area, or get out and do something
more satisfying. The third option must be resisted: incorporating non-agile
or anti-agile practices *and* calling it Agile. This is confusing and not
satisfying: it weakens the effectiveness of Agile's inspect-and-adapt cycle.
One's Agile efforts will be handicapped - as the team limps along, wondering
why "it hurts when I do /this/", wondering why Agile is not working, we give
Agile a bad name and make our teams unhappy.
Let's be honest and own up to the practices we are using - by choice or
economic necessity. Compromises are sometimes necessary, we have all seen
this and know it exists. But let's not try to twist Agile to incorporate or
compensate for these compromises. So, if it's not Agile, don't try to sugar
coat it and call it Agile. Call it a hybrid. Call it "on our way".
Or get out - as JB mentions. This is an honest approach, and seems to be
satisfying to JB and others I know. That's important. Well, for many of us,
job satisfaction is important.
Personally, I'm happy to be *more agile* every month... it's an organic
growth thing, but then I have a long fuse. Over time, we try to replace the
next thing that hurts the work the most with an Agile practice... if it's
where the team hurts most, there is more motivation to accept the change.
Who cares if we're not 100% Agile today? Next week? As long as it's
sufficiently satisfying in terms of what you value. It is for me. For now.
We'll see next month. There's always the door. :-)
deb
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 23:09:30 EST
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Article in Intelligent Enterprise magazine regarding Agile
Methodologies
-------------------------------1080274169
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hello, all.
I'd be interested in your responses to the article entitled "Popularity
Contest" in Intelligent Enterprise magazine. It provides a capsule sketch of
the
comments I hear whenever the subject of agile methodologies comes up at many
of
the software development-related events here in Silicon Valley.
I'm sure that this is something with which many of you have had to contend.
While I personally don't agree with many of his conclusions, I would
appreciate
some feedback from the members of this forum.
The article may be accessed on-line at:
http://www.intelligententerprise.com/020628/511e_business1_2.jhtml
Thanks for your views.
Regards,
Pete
-------------------------------1080274169
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=US-ASCII http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html;
charset=US-ASCII">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR:
#ffffff">
<DIV>Hello, all.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I'd be interested in your responses to the article entitled "Popularity
Contest" in Intelligent Enterprise magazine. It provides a capsule sketch of
the comments I hear whenever the subject of agile methodologies comes up at
many of the software development-related events here in Silicon Valley.
</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I'm sure that this is something with which many of you have
had to contend. While I personally don't agree with many of his
conclusions, I would appreciate some feedback from the members of this
forum. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The article may be accessed on-line at: </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><A
href="http://www.intelligententerprise.com/020628/511e_business1_2.jhtml">ht
tp://www.intelligententerprise.com/020628/511e_business1_2.jhtml</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thanks for your views.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Regards,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Pete</DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1080274169--
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 22:14:37 -0700
From: Norman Lorrain <***@lorrain.ca>
Subject: Re: [AM] Article in Intelligent Enterprise magazine regarding Agile
Methodologies
I would jump on the comment
"A software engineering project should resemble a good civil engineering
project"
No, no, no. Why should it? Why are some so insistent on shoehorning
software engineering into a civil engineering paradigm? Humanity has
been building bridges for millenia, but software for only decades. It's
a dumb analogy.
No one ever says that writing a novel, or that creating a recipe, or
writing a song, is like building a bridge.
Reminds me of an engineering prof. I once had. He said that the
engineering disciplines could be summarised by their equations:
civil: Sum(Forces) = 0
mechanical: Force = mass x acceleration
electrical: Schroedinger's equation:
http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/SchroedingerEquation.html
The implication was that Electrical Engineering towered above all other
disciplines...
Of course, software development is even more involved, because we're not
constrained by the laws of physics. Way more degrees of freedom.
Another quote:
"The goal of software engineering in the future should be to be as
successful and as repeatable as any other engineering science"
I'm not so sure that repeatability is of any use. I know thats the holy
grail for many in QA and CMM advocates, but really, what does
repeatability buy us? If MS lost the source code to Word, would we
expect them to recreate it exactly? Bugs and all? Maybe I'm
misinterpreting the term.
If you're talking to someone who's looking for an analogy to
engineering, I woud point them to Poppendiecks book. I like how they
compare the software development process to control engineering - but
don't get confused, in this case the *process* is itself a control
system - it's all about feedback. In the traditional methologies, there
isn't nearly as much feedback, and perhaps thats why we've see so many
failures in the past decades.
In agile methods, if a practice isn't proving its worth in providing
feedback to the developers, its considered waste. The Poppendiecks
point out that elimination of waste is paramount in the Toyota
Production System, a modern and very successful engineering process.
I'd be interested in your responses to the article entitled
"Popularity Contest" in Intelligent Enterprise magazine. It provides a
capsule sketch of the comments I hear whenever the subject of agile
methodologies comes up at many of the software development-related
events here in Silicon Valley.
http://www.intelligententerprise.com/020628/511e_business1_2.jhtml
------------------------------"Popularity Contest" in Intelligent Enterprise magazine. It provides a
capsule sketch of the comments I hear whenever the subject of agile
methodologies comes up at many of the software development-related
events here in Silicon Valley.
http://www.intelligententerprise.com/020628/511e_business1_2.jhtml
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 01:01:49 EST
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Re: [AM] Article in Intelligent Enterprise magazine regarding Agile
Methodologi
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In a message dated 3/25/2004 9:15:13 PM Pacific Standard Time,
***@lorrain.ca writes:
I would jump on the comment
"A software engineering project should resemble a good civil engineering
project"
Hear, hear!
That's the issue I think most people who have seen or experienced an agile
project seize on almost universally: the bridge building analogy. Whenever I
hear it, I am reminded of the reason it took so long to remove he traffic
bottleneck at the point at which Alum Rock (I think...) crosses Highway 101
in San
Jose (The Capital of Silicon Valley): The overpass was constructd of about a
zillion tons of concrete all the way down to bedrock, so it was too
difficult to
dismantle. Hmmm. that does sound like some of the application systems I've
had
to go in and clean up!
Thanks for your comments.
Regards,
Pete
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<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 3/25/2004 9:15:13 PM Pacific Standard Time,
***@lorrain.ca writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue
2px solid"><FONT face=Arial>I would jump on the comment<BR>"A software
engineering project should resemble a good civil engineering
<BR>project"</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV>Hear, hear!</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>That's the issue I think most people who have seen or experienced an
agile project seize on almost universally: the bridge building
analogy. Whenever I hear it, I am reminded of the reason it took so
long to remove he traffic bottleneck at the point at which Alum Rock (I
think...) crosses Highway 101 in San Jose (The Capital of Silicon
Valley): The overpass was constructd of about a zillion tons of concrete all
the way down to bedrock, so it was too difficult to dismantle. Hmmm.
that does sound like some of the application systems I've had to go in and
clean up!</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thanks for your comments.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Regards,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Pete</DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1080280909--
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 12:29:21 +0100
From: "David Robrecht" <***@realsoftware.be>
Subject: RE: [AM] Article in Intelligent Enterprise magazine regarding Agile
Methodologi
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I would loke to jump on the same comment comment "A software engineering
project should resemble a good civil engineering project" Creating software
involves the same steps as other industries, the problem with the analogy is
the mapping of the phases. In Belgium all bridges and tunnels are considered
works of art. Somebody has made a design and then is was build. (not
straight away) Cars are designed first and constructed later. To me all
software engineering activities before compiling are design activities. I
think software creation teams resemble advertising agencies, design
departments of car manufacturers, animation movie makers. Why not make the
next analogy: Developer = Animator Functional analyst = Scenarist Architect
= Director Project manager = Producer. Note that I have not said or
implied anything about maintenance or other very relevant and expensive
activities. I only think designing software has nothing to to with the
construction of bridges. Robrect DAVID
***@advalvas.be -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Norman
Lorrain [mailto:***@lorrain.ca] Verzonden: vr 26/03/2004 6:14 Aan:
***@topica.com CC: Onderwerp: Re: [AM] Article in Intelligent
Enterprise magazine regarding Agile Methodologi
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=========================================================== I would jump
on the comment "A software engineering project should resemble a good civil
engineering project" No, no, no. Why should it? Why are some so
insistent on shoehorning software engineering into a civil engineering
paradigm? Humanity has been building bridges for millenia, but software
for only decades. It's a dumb analogy. No one ever says that writing a
novel, or that creating a recipe, or writing a song, is like building a
bridge. Reminds me of an engineering prof. I once had. He said that the
engineering disciplines could be summarised by their equations: civil:
Sum(Forces) = 0 mechanical: Force = mass x acceleration
electrical: Schroedinger's equation:
http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/SchroedingerEquation.html The
implication was that Electrical Engineering towered above all other
disciplines... Of course, software development is even more involved,
because we're not constrained by the laws of physics. Way more degrees of
freedom. Another quote: "The goal of software engineering in the
future should be to be as successful and as repeatable as any other
engineering science" I'm not so sure that repeatability is of any use. I
know thats the holy grail for many in QA and CMM advocates, but really,
what does repeatability buy us? If MS lost the source code to Word, would
we expect them to recreate it exactly? Bugs and all? Maybe I'm
misinterpreting the term. If you're talking to someone who's looking for
an analogy to engineering, I woud point them to Poppendiecks book. I like
how they compare the software development process to control engineering -
but don't get confused, in this case the *process* is itself a control
system - it's all about feedback. In the traditional methologies, there
isn't nearly as much feedback, and perhaps thats why we've see so many
failures in the past decades. In agile methods, if a practice isn't
proving its worth in providing feedback to the developers, its considered
waste. The Poppendiecks point out that elimination of waste is paramount
in the Toyota Production System, a modern and very successful engineering
process. ***@aol.com wrote: > > I'd be interested
in your responses to the article entitled > "Popularity Contest" in
Intelligent Enterprise magazine. It provides a > capsule sketch of the
comments I hear whenever the subject of agile > methodologies comes up at
many of the software development-related > events here in Silicon Valley.
http://www.intelligententerprise.com/020628/511e_business1_2.jhtml >
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www.agilemodeling.com
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------_=_NextPart_001_01C41325.95848838--
------------------------------
For more information about AM, visit the Agile Modeling Home Page at
www.agilemodeling.com
End of ***@topica.com digest, issue 1109
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For more information about AM, visit the Agile Modeling Home Page at www.agilemodeling.com
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